I have them :) They are historically correct, and look very much like some drawings I saw elsewhere... but... they are not the best quality.

Quite flat. The research is good.

Zitat von cernief im Beitrag #20

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You wrote:

Zitat

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In particular the third figure wears a beautiful Greek muscular metal breastplate. This does not mean that it depicts a Greek warrior. The helmet of the figure is of the Italo-Phrygian type and was used simultaneously by all the Italian tribes.

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If you study the figure closely, and look at the back (something that the picture does not show) it shows that it is only a front plate, held in place in the front by straps. So it is not a Greek Style breastplate. What makes this look like it is, is also that the Typical Italian belt looks a bit like armor here.

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I am wrong, it is a muscle armor, so a full plate on both sides. I just noticed it after I applied undercolor...

However, the muscular metal breastplate consisted of two pieces. Sometimes only the front piece was worn.

I was wondering if the Campanian light infantry (skirmishers) could be well represented by Greek peltasts. Of course the Italics in general preferred to shave, so the heads would have to go, and be replaced by some others, but is the idea good? I am unsure. Did the Campanians just use the same skirmish infantry as the rest of the Oscans? What do you all think?

Did the Oscans use skirmish infantry at all? I came never across Samnite Velites or bowmen? The whole army was some kind of light dart infantry.

Yes, that is my thinking too. What got me thinking otherwise was the Linear-A Samnites, where one of the poses is an archer, and another is a slinger...

Claus and Misteredd good evening. We are probably the only ones dealing with this issue. Well, the two figures in the Samnite wars set 1 box I think are historically inaccurate. The Italian tribes used skirmishers but only javelinmen and slingers. I find the most suitable figures to be found in the Rome's early period box.

True: We may be the only ones really worrying about this. PSR does not think it to be wrong that they are equipped this way. The books I have don't mention Samnite Archers or Slingers... neither do any of the wargame rules I have... but that is not worth much. In the end I guess only the Linear-A team and Andreas can answer why they made these.

As for the figures you found: I saw it mentioned that most Oscans would not go into battle without a helmet. So again, some conversions needed.

Yes, but we are talking about skirmishers, that is, or about slaves or about people of low social classes (4th or 5th class), therefore they could not wear a helmet. What is certain is that no wargame rules system mentions Samnite archers. I will convert these 4 Samnite archers figures into greek archers.

4 archers? only 4? I have 20 :)

Did you buy it 5 times? What will you do with so many Samnites?

4 times was my initial purchase, and then an extra 1, from another vendor, as it had some Out of Production sets that I needed, that Linear-A did not have, and they had a minimum of 25 euro to buy anything.

240 figures Samnites. A very large army. Some boxes I have bought many times too, like for example "The Army of Pyrrhus of Epirus (Set 1)" and "set 2" but the Samnites I only bought them once.

"Only" 200. There are only 10 poses. :)

I like to make my armies a certain size, 150+. You might think that would mean I had enough Samnites, with the HäT Italian Ally Infantry set, but, I was not going to use those at Samnites at all, if I can get away with it. Like I said, the original intention was 160 (4 Sets), but this leaves room for conversions. Linear-A should love me for these big orders . I have also ordered 5 sets of the Linear-A Samnite Cavalry (which contains other cavalry than Samnites), and I ordered an extra set, because I saw that they had only included 1 Lucanian, and I need 6 for a cavalry unit.

I have a LOT of figures in total :)

Back on topic:

I was thinking that since the Campanians probably were the ones most akin to Greeks (or rather Etruscans), they could have had skirmishers. That is very light infantry. The figure I would use for this are these from HäT 8044 (Alexanders light infantry? I think it is called).



This figure would need a new head, but to me is the most ideal. Weapons are approximately right, and so is the tunic. As for shields, the small round ones that come with the HäT Italian Allies infantry set could be used. Not sure why they are included in the set honestly. They don't seem to be right for the very heavily armored Italian that can have it, and there are no other figures you can add a shield to. Adding it to the Italian Allied Cavalry would be a mistake, since none of those had them, for any of the Oscan tribes. The "sandals" that this figure has are also wrong.



These two have more light weapons than the first picture. That makes them more ideal really in that sense. Again the same shield can be added, no need to use the Greek ones that come in the set. What worries me is that they do not have short sleeves, and missing them seems wrong. Also, the heads would have to go, since they are bareheaded, but more importantly have beards.

In short, GeorgeDainelis is right, his choices would be better, but the style of the figures, compared to the HäT ones may seem wrong. (Also I would have to buy more figures :P)

Now that I think about it you could use these figures as well as long as you change their heads. Sleeves are not a problem. You can also not put shields (we are talking about skirmishers, slaves or very poor). If you want to put the ones you mentioned, they are good. But the best ones are from the manufacturer: Xyston miniatures 15mm. Very realistic shields with excellent curvature. Only shields without figures are for sale.

Concerning the slinger - the Samnites were a pastoral economy herding goats and cattle and the sling is the pastoral weapon anywhere, so I do not have any problems with the sling. But the archer is another thing. There is no archery tradition in the Italian tribes. King Hieron send as an ally of Rome some Cretan Mercenaries to Rome prior to Cannae to compensate this. Are there any depictions of ancient Italic archers?

Misteredd you are correct. I personally have not seen any depiction of an Italian archer. Even if they existed, they did not constitute a separate unit. The Romans used Cretan archers. Slingers I believe there were, I have written it in one of my comments. But the slinger figure on the Samnites Linear-A box is not historically accurate because of the shield and helmet. Slingers had the lightest equipment. The slingshot figures on Rome's early period box are more correct.

To be fair, the Archer on the back of the box is the only figure NOT labelled a Samnite. What he is, I do not know. Excellent points about the slings though.

This is the figure I am using currently as a skirmisher/light troop. In my mind he is the one who is most unlike all the others. The smallish shield, no armor, and clearly having extra javelins. Ring hand, probably supposed to have a spear. The only other non-armored figure does not have Javelins, a bigger shield, and the spear seems to be of the thrusting variety.

And this is a good figure for Samnite skirmishers.